squat stance (again the squat)...

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squat stance (again the squat)...

Post by sickboy » Mon May 12, 2008 12:55 pm

I have a quick question. I was reading Rippetoe's "Starting strength" book, and it is clearly stated that the squat must be performed with the heels about shoulder width apart, well I have a 20" shoulder width and I have been doing squats with my heels about 10" apart. I have noticed that as I am doing my heavy sets I was moving forward and not going deep enough. In Rippetoe's book they mention that that is one classic problem with an improper stand... so, shall I CORRECT slowly to the proper width keeping the same weight or shall I reset (20lb less) and try with proper form?

Thanks


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Post by robertscott » Mon May 12, 2008 1:19 pm

with lifts form is much more important than the weight lifted, so i would suggest trying whatever needs to be tried for proper form.

Having said that, whatever works for you, works for you. When i squat my legs are a bit wider than shoulder width, I find i need to do it this way for balance and to get correct form. I'm quite tall and very thin with quite long legs for my height so my high centre of gravity means squatting's hard work.

I recommend just doing whatever feels comfortable and helps you maintain correct form.

Anyways you can vary how wide your leg stance is when squatting to target the muscles slightly differently (sumo squat etc) so like i said just do whatever's comfortable and concentrate much more on how you lift, not what you lift. In my experience, if it feels like you're doing it wrong, you are.

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Post by TimD » Mon May 12, 2008 2:05 pm

Robertscott is correct. Shoulder width is given as a general guideline, you have to play with it to see how it works for you. As to "should I correct slowly", No. Correct it now. Loose the weight, work on it light until you get it right, then add the weight back.
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Post by Matt Z » Mon May 12, 2008 2:15 pm

I agree. Start light and see how you feel. Don't rush into using using heavy weights until you feel comfortable with the new stance.

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Post by sickboy » Mon May 12, 2008 7:51 pm

Thanks robertscott, TimD and Matt,

I just did my sets with the new stance. It feels awkward but much more stable. I started with 30lb less than normal, but I finished my fifth set with my target weight, and I went definitely parallel without leaning forward. My inner tights feel really sore, perhaps I will regret it tomorrow.

I do not know why I did not get this book before... has a lot of good pointers.


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Post by robertscott » Tue May 13, 2008 7:46 am

getting advice from books is really useful, however i find talking to actual individuals about their own experiences to be even bettter.

Don't get me wrong a lot of the info expecially from the well extablished guys like Rippetoe, Gironda etc is priceless and tried and true so you can't go far wrong, but people are all a bit different like you know already with your squat stance so don't be scared to question certain aspects.

some of the guys that post here (you'll get to recognise certain names) really know their stuff and can be a lot of help.

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Post by TimD » Tue May 13, 2008 12:23 pm

Robertscott, I'm surprized you mentioned Gironda in a leg thread, LOL. In his old gym in Burbank, he wouldn't even allow a squat rack in there. thought squats would make the hips/waist too thick. Thus the sissy squats, etc. He was far ahead of his time, but was definately into the aesthetic aspect of things. He was an eccntric, but was an icon from the 50's through the 80's.
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Post by hoosegow » Tue May 13, 2008 12:42 pm

It's taken me five years and numerous coaching sessions to get my form correct. Once correct, I have been able to get back to my heaviest workouts and then blow past them with no pain in my back. I guess what I am saying is get your form correct before you have any problems.

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Post by sickboy » Tue May 13, 2008 12:57 pm

Well, yesterday's workout really got me today. My adductors are so sore I can hardly walk, I only did a 5x5 routine with a shoulder width stance and it seems that I over did the adductors.

In soccer, when one muscle is a bit tight we go for an easy run to "untight it", do you think this would be OK?

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Post by robertscott » Tue May 13, 2008 6:02 pm

TimD wrote:Robertscott, I'm surprized you mentioned Gironda in a leg thread, LOL. In his old gym in Burbank, he wouldn't even allow a squat rack in there. thought squats would make the hips/waist too thick. Thus the sissy squats, etc. He was far ahead of his time, but was definately into the aesthetic aspect of things. He was an eccntric, but was an icon from the 50's through the 80's.
Tim
Didn't really know much about him to be honest Tim, came across his name when i was looking for a decent pull-up/row variation. Found the sternum chin-up, interesting stuff.

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Post by pdellorto » Tue May 13, 2008 7:12 pm

sickboy wrote:I do not know why I did not get this book before... has a lot of good pointers.
The only thing that book didn't help me with was the Standing Press. I learned to do that lift properly in the first place, so all I got was pointers with hand position and some confirmation I was doing it right.

It's really an excellent book, one of a few I recommend without hesitation. Mostly because it's so clearly written. I also like Stuart McRobert's "Insider's Tell-All..." book, but that man needs an editor, he buries his information too deeply inside warnings and caveats. Thanks to Starting Strength my Squat, Deadlift, and Bench all increased, because suddenly I know clearly what "minor" problems I had were holding back my weights. Like, oh yeah, thumb over the bar and wrists straight on the squat, that was worth 5-10kg right there...

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Post by sickboy » Tue May 13, 2008 7:43 pm

pdellorto wrote:I know clearly what "minor" problems I had were holding back my weights. Like, oh yeah, thumb over the bar and wrists straight on the squat, that was worth 5-10kg right there.

It happened to me with the bench press. I used to do it with wide grip and flexed wrists, that is what made me join exrx.net.

I also just realised that I need to fix my grip in the squat too, my wrists bend and it seems that I am carrying some weight with my arms. You are supposed to keep the elbows way out (chest up), and a very narrow grip...bummer! I have been training on my own and I have to learn the hard way...

pdellorto wrote:I also like Stuart McRobert's "Insider's Tell-All..."

Do you have any other "must-have books" in your list?
Last edited by sickboy on Tue May 13, 2008 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by pdellorto » Tue May 13, 2008 8:00 pm

sickboy wrote:Do you have any other "must-have books" in your list?
Check my bio listing, I put a few in there. I think that McRobert book has been OOP and replaced with a comprehensive book on lifting. The Bruce Lee book I mention (the John Little book) is excellent but Bruce surely would train differently now...but I found it inspirational.

I need to read more basic texts, though. I still need to read Bompa (well, re-read, I read one of his texts once but I knew too little to understand it). I need to read Supertraining by Mel Siff. I need to really sit down and read all of Essentials of Weightlifting and Strength Training by Mohamed El-Hewie. But I don't have inter-library loan access anymore. As soon as I do I'm hitting the basics hard and hoping I know enough to understand it.

Maybe we need a "reading list" thread. Your top 5 "What to read and why it's valuable."

I'm learning more online these days - I'm reading everything I can on periodization now, trying to "get it." I clearly still don't. I understand the concept and understand it when I see it, but I don't know it well enough to program my own weights/sets/reps optimally.

Peter

Hey, where are you in NJ? I'm from northern NJ originally. PM me...

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Post by pdellorto » Tue May 13, 2008 10:40 pm

Actually, while we're on the subject, here are my favorite squat resources:

Starting Strength (book)
http://www.startingstrength.com/

Squatting Deep:
http://www.exrx.net/Questions/FullSquatHipFlex.html

SquatRx videos:
http://squatrx.blogspot.com/
http://youtube.com/user/johnnymnemonic2

Stumptuous.com squat articles:
http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/displayarticle.php?aid=52

Crossfit videos:
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/backsquat.mpg
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/Cros ... eview1.wmv

Strengthmill Rippetoe Q&A Squat video compilation:
http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/showt ... f73&t=1334
(all the squat videos, and Mark Rippetoe's excerpted comments)

EliteFTS - search for squats on this page, tons of variations
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp? ... ll%20Lifts

Also check here: http://exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4317
That's the sticky of Boris Bachmann's SquatRx series.

Hope that helps. It's all stuff that helped me overcome postural problems and start to squat deep and properly.

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Essentials of Weightlifting and Strength Training

Post by Mohamed F. El-Hewie » Wed May 05, 2010 2:09 pm

pdellorto wrote: I need to really sit down and read all of Essentials of Weightlifting and Strength Training by Mohamed El-Hewie. But I don't have inter-library loan access anymore. As soon as I do I'm hitting the basics hard and hoping I know enough to understand it.
Hello Peter,
I am the author of Essentials and I appreciate your desire to read it all. As far as having the book physically, it would require you long time to read it all. Though I knew some people who did and sent me very critical questions, you still need to live it as you consume the info. My best advice is to ask questions, look at Internet postings on every subject of weight lifting and take it from there. Very soon I will publish a CD form of the book in order to make it available for kids and those on limited budget.

Do not hesitate to ask questions as I do learn through the process of knowing what others have in mind, as well


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