Training for Football

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BIGtenMaDbAdGeR
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Training for Football

Post by BIGtenMaDbAdGeR » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:24 pm

Hey all, I am starting training again and this time I am training to try out for my D III college football team next year. Although I am currently studying Exercise Science, I am a novice as a Freshman, so I'm hoping someone experienced can help me.

Here are my stats: age 21, 5'7", 160 lbs, probably about 15% BF, and here are estimates of what I had accomplished, or hadn't accomplished I feel, when I was working out for 2 months straight before I quit about three months ago: Bench 1RM of 240 lbs, Squat 1RM of 340 lbs, and a 40-yd-dash of about 3.9 sec.

I am looking to try out for the half-back slot, so my goals in a nutshell would be: Bench 1RM of at least 300 lbs, Squat 1RM of at least 450 lbs, and a 40-yd-dash of at most 3.5 sec. I am also looking to reduce my BF % down to less than 10% and increase my weight to at least 180 lbs.

Furthermore, I am going to try out Andreu Swaseys explosive training program which consists of:
Monday
1) Snatch-Grip Jump Shrug; 3 sets; 3-5 reps; rest (minutes) 3-5
2) Barbell Squat; 5 sets; 4-6 reps; rest (minutes) 3-5
3) Push Press; 3 sets; 6-8 reps; rest (minutes) 2-3
4) Back Extension; 2 sets; 10 reps; rest (minutes) 1-2
Tuesday
1) Bench Press; 4 sets; 4-6 reps; rest (minutes) 3-5
2) Pullup (or Lat Pulldown); 4 sets; 8 reps; rest (minutes) 2-3
3) Dumbbell Shoulder Press; 2 sets; 12 reps; rest (minutes) 1-2
4) Barbell Curl; 3 sets; 10 reps; rest (minutes) 1-2
Thursday
1) High Pull; 3 sets; 3-5 reps; rest (minutes) 3-5
2) Front Squat; 3 sets; 6-8 reps; rest (minutes) 2-3
3) Romanian Deadlift; 4 sets; 6-8 reps; rest (minutes) 2-3
4) Lunge; 3 sets; 6-8 reps; rest (minutes) 1-2
Friday
1) Dumbbell Row; 4 sets; 6-8 reps; rest (minutes) 2-3
2) Dumbbell Incline Bench Press; 3 sets; 10 reps; rest (minutes) 1-2
3) Lateral Raise; 3 sets; 12 reps; rest (minutes) 1-2
4) Lying Triceps Extension; 3 sets; 10 reps; rest (minutes) 1-2

I believe his program has good splits, adequate sets and reps for power gains, and great rest time between sets for glycogen replenishment.

Now here are my concerns of what I should, or shouldn't, be doing while doing this program to achieve my goals above:
1) What specific dynamic warm-ups are best before each training session? And inversely, what static stretches are best post-workout in conjunction with the above program?
2) How often, when, and for how long should I be doing cardio sessions so that they don't become detrimental to recovery? Moreover, are there any specific cardio exercises that I should be doing besides sprinting, box jumps, shuttles, etc.?

Well, that's all I can think of atm but I'm sure I'll think of something later. If anyone can provide any feedback or advice, even if not related to my questions, I'd appreciate it.

Otherwise, thanks in advance!

Brandon


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Re: Training for Football

Post by nygmen » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:38 pm

BIGtenMaDbAdGeR wrote:and a 40-yd-dash of at most 3.5 sec.
aren't even the fastest NFL players over 4 seconds? Isn't this Olympic gold speed?

now I should finish reading your post.

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Post by TheHeb » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:57 am

So you're 5'7'', 160 lbs and after working out for two straight months you could bench 240, squat 350, and run a 3.9 40-yd dash? It's obvious that a mistake was made timing your 40-yd dash. That also leads me to believe that you're other numbers might be a little off too. It's important that if you want to develop strength, you do the exercises correctly (squats below parallel, bench to chest if flexibility allows). Get a coach if you can and honestly take a good look at your current numbers so you know where you stand.

Secondly I would say that your routine is way too complicated. Your numbers sound high, but from your post I get the impression that you're not really an advanced lifter. Just do Starting Strength. You can find it in the beginner's sticky at the top of the general forum. It basically calls for 3x5 for Squats, Deadlift, Bench, Press, and Power clean. There are no cleans in the program you are currently on. Cleans are great for developing explosiveness, which you obviously need in football (especially at the HB position). I really think it's perfect for football.

Third, I would spend as much or more time focused on agility drills and sprinting. Get some cones. Run gassers. Run the hill. Make sure to do a lot of drills where you change direction quickly. It's all about having quick feet.

Lastly, the Badgers are going to win the B10 this year. F'em Bucky!

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Re: Training for Football

Post by stuward » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:17 am

nygmen wrote:
BIGtenMaDbAdGeR wrote:and a 40-yd-dash of at most 3.5 sec.
aren't even the fastest NFL players over 4 seconds? Isn't this Olympic gold speed?

now I should finish reading your post.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40-yard_dash

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Re: Training for Football

Post by Stephen Johnson » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:42 am

BIGtenMaDbAdGeR wrote:aren't even the fastest NFL players over 4 seconds? Isn't this Olympic gold speed?
From the wiki article that stuward linked to in his post above:

The Fastest Players in the NFL/NCAA include the following.

1. Darrell Green (4.09 in Training Camp)[5]
2. Percy Harvin (4.15 at Friday Night Lights in Gainesville, Florida.)
3. Laveranues Coles (4.17 at Florida State University, 4.29 according to the Jets' media guide)[5]
4. Ahman Green (4.17 at pre-Draft workout in Nebraska)[5]
5. Joey Galloway (4.18 at his official Ohio State Pro Day on February 26, 1994.)
6. Deion Sanders (4.18 in Dallas)[5]
7. Donte Stallworth (4.22 at 2003 Tennessee Pro Day)[5]
8. Willie Parker (4.23 at 2004 North Carolina Pro Day)[5]
9. Chris Johnson (4.24 at 2008 NFL Combine)[5]
10. Randy Moss (4.25 at Marshall University)[5]
11. Ted Ginn, Jr. (4.27 at Ohio State University)
12. Dexter Jackson (4.27 at 2008 NFL combine)
13. Champ Bailey (4.28 at 1999 NFL Combine)[5]
14. Devin Hester (4.27 and a 4.38 at Miami Pro Day, 4.45 @ 2006 NFL Combine)[5]
15. Reggie Bush (4.33 at University of Southern California on Pro Day 2006)[5]
16. Fabian Washington (4.29 at NFL combine.)


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Re: Training for Football

Post by nygmen » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:05 am

Ha HA... No 3.5 in anyone's future.

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Re: Training for Football

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:09 am

Here are my stats: age 21, 5'7", 160 lbs, probably about 15% BF, and here are estimates of what I had accomplished, or hadn't accomplished I feel, when I was working out for 2 months straight before I quit about three months ago: Bench 1RM of 240 lbs, Squat 1RM of 340 lbs, and a 40-yd-dash of about 3.9 sec.
Brandon,

You DON"T run a 40 yard dash in 3.9 seconds!
I am looking to try out for the half-back slot, so my goals in a nutshell would be: Bench 1RM of at least 300 lbs, Squat 1RM of at least 450 lbs, and a 40-yd-dash of at most 3.5 sec.


You aren't going to get your 40 yard dash time down to 3.5 seconds unless you strap a rocket to your a.$s.
I am also looking to reduce my BF % down to less than 10%
Are you a football player or a bodybuilder? There are certain body fat percentages associated with specific positions in football and other sports. However, research has shown there there is NO correlation between body fat percentage and performance.

That means, focus on you performance, your body fat percentage will take care of itself, via your training.
and increase my weight to at least 180 lbs.
Getting your weigh up makes sense.
Furthermore, I am going to try out Andreu Swaseys explosive training
Overall, the program looks good.
Now here are my concerns of what I should, or shouldn't, be doing while doing this program to achieve my goals above:

1) What specific dynamic warm-ups are best before each training session?
A warm up is simply preparation for your top work sets. Expend as little energy as you can in your warm ups. Less is better with a warm up.

Too many individual's turn their warm up into workouts. They exhaust themselves before they get to their top work sets.
And inversely, what static stretches are best post-workout in conjunction with the above program?
Post static stretch has some benefits. But what's your reason for peforming a post workout static stretch?
2) How often, when, and for how long should I be doing cardio sessions so that they don't become detrimental to recovery? Moreover, are there any specific cardio exercises that I should be doing besides sprinting, box jumps, shuttles, etc.?
No! You want to develop the energy system that you will be using for football. The use of interval sprints, box jumps, etc will provide you with the right kind of cardio.

Kenny Croxdale

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Post by BIGtenMaDbAdGeR » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:43 pm

TheHeb wrote:So you're 5'7'', 160 lbs and after working out for two straight months you could bench 240, squat 350, and run a 3.9 40-yd dash? It's obvious that a mistake was made timing your 40-yd dash. That also leads me to believe that you're other numbers might be a little off too. It's important that if you want to develop strength, you do the exercises correctly (squats below parallel, bench to chest if flexibility allows). Get a coach if you can and honestly take a good look at your current numbers so you know where you stand.

Secondly I would say that your routine is way too complicated. Your numbers sound high, but from your post I get the impression that you're not really an advanced lifter. Just do Starting Strength. You can find it in the beginner's sticky at the top of the general forum. It basically calls for 3x5 for Squats, Deadlift, Bench, Press, and Power clean. There are no cleans in the program you are currently on. Cleans are great for developing explosiveness, which you obviously need in football (especially at the HB position). I really think it's perfect for football.

Third, I would spend as much or more time focused on agility drills and sprinting. Get some cones. Run gassers. Run the hill. Make sure to do a lot of drills where you change direction quickly. It's all about having quick feet.

Lastly, the Badgers are going to win the B10 this year. F'em Bucky!
Heh, obviously a typo there that got lost within my ramble. My apologies. 4.9 secs is the correct estimate when I was timed after about a month of working out and 4.5 is my goal.

Nope, my bench and squat are accurate. I was able to bench 225x5 before I stopped working out. I did exaggerate my height and weight though; my height was 5'6" when I was at the hospital recently. My weight fluctuated when I was working out between 155 and 160 with 160 being the highest I was able to achieve without proper nutrition I should say.

Actually, I thought this routine was simplified, which is why I am rather fond of testing it out. Only 4 exercises per session with decent rest periods will allow me to get in and our fairly faster than it usually takes me. As stated in my post, I took the exercise program from Swasey, who is a certified, trained, and experienced professional who deals with NFL clients. The program came from Men's Health. As far as experienced lifter or not, I guess that is up in the air. I've been lifting under supervision since I was 14 in high school, of course for football. I started Junior and Senior year as middle linebacker at only 140 lbs with a 225 1RM bench and 300 1RM squat. So as you can see, my gains have not chained much since I've been out of high school, probably as a result of me quitting working out for various excuses. Now I'm determined.

Thanks for the suggestions on cleans, deadlift, and gassers. I didn't incorporate them into my regime because I truly hate them, but the more I read, the more I realize they are essential for football training.

Lastly, hell yes they are!

Thanks TheHeb

P.S. I am in my freshman year of college studying Exercise Science to become a personal trainer and physical therapist, so much of my information I obtain from my professor whom is certified with ACSM and NSCA. I enjoy the forums because there are real people here who understand the practicality of these methods versus theories of a professor.

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Re: Training for Football

Post by BIGtenMaDbAdGeR » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:46 pm

nygmen wrote:
BIGtenMaDbAdGeR wrote:and a 40-yd-dash of at most 3.5 sec.
aren't even the fastest NFL players over 4 seconds? Isn't this Olympic gold speed?

now I should finish reading your post.
Hehe, it would be quite amazing if I could run a 3.9 sec 40. If that were the case, I would not be on here looking for help!

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Re: Training for Football

Post by BIGtenMaDbAdGeR » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:48 pm

nygmen wrote:
Ha HA... No 3.5 in anyone's future.
What are you talking about, all I have to do is buy a rocket and strap it to my a.$s like Kenny said! :razz:

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Re: Training for Football

Post by BIGtenMaDbAdGeR » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:57 pm

Kenny Croxdale wrote:
Overall, the program looks good.

A warm up is simply preparation for your top work sets. Expend as little energy as you can in your warm ups. Less is better with a warm up.

Too many individual's turn their warm up into workouts. They exhaust themselves before they get to their top work sets.

Post static stretch has some benefits. But what's your reason for peforming a post workout static stretch?

No! You want to develop the energy system that you will be using for football. The use of interval sprints, box jumps, etc will provide you with the right kind of cardio.

Kenny Croxdale
I guess I didn't specify very well. Let me elaborate. Does anyone know of any dynamic stretching/warm up exercises that NFL-level coaches/players utilize before working out? I know of a few but I am looking to expand my creativity. Also, I'm looking for the most common static stretches they use as well, aside from toe touches, etc.

Thanks Kenny. You are right, I want to develop my type II muscle fibers and utilize my anaerobic system more than doing endurance training. But really what I meant was does anyone know of essential exercises for training for the such, other than interval sprints, shuttles, etc?

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Re: Training for Football

Post by BIGtenMaDbAdGeR » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:03 pm

Kenny Croxdale wrote:
Post static stretch has some benefits. But what's your reason for peforming a post workout static stretch?

Kenny Croxdale
Post static stretching, in a nut shell, helps to elongate the muscle following its constriction from exercise. If a muscle is constricted, it cannot full reach its potential for fast reaction to stimuli. Besides, flexibility is a good thing :lol:

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Post by BIGtenMaDbAdGeR » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:11 pm

TheHeb wrote:So you're 5'7'', 160 lbs and after working out for two straight months you could bench 240, squat 350, and run a 3.9 40-yd dash? It's obvious that a mistake was made timing your 40-yd dash. That also leads me to believe that you're other numbers might be a little off too. It's important that if you want to develop strength, you do the exercises correctly (squats below parallel, bench to chest if flexibility allows). Get a coach if you can and honestly take a good look at your current numbers so you know where you stand.

Secondly I would say that your routine is way too complicated. Your numbers sound high, but from your post I get the impression that you're not really an advanced lifter. Just do Starting Strength. You can find it in the beginner's sticky at the top of the general forum. It basically calls for 3x5 for Squats, Deadlift, Bench, Press, and Power clean. There are no cleans in the program you are currently on. Cleans are great for developing explosiveness, which you obviously need in football (especially at the HB position). I really think it's perfect for football.

Third, I would spend as much or more time focused on agility drills and sprinting. Get some cones. Run gassers. Run the hill. Make sure to do a lot of drills where you change direction quickly. It's all about having quick feet.

Lastly, the Badgers are going to win the B10 this year. F'em Bucky!
Also, squatting below parallel is not a good thing. After asking numerous physical therapists and trainers because my body has a natural way of wanting to go below parallel, they determined it places too much stress on the lower back. They said to call it a form of hyperextension with added weight if you will.

Go Badgers!

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Post by nygmen » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:22 pm

BIGtenMaDbAdGeR wrote: Also, squatting below parallel is not a good thing.
As a personal thing, maybe...

But as a general rule, I tend to disagree

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Post by Jungledoc » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:53 pm

BIGtenMaDbAdGeR wrote:Also, squatting below parallel is not a good thing. After asking numerous physical therapists and trainers because my body has a natural way of wanting to go below parallel, they determined it places too much stress on the lower back. They said to call it a form of hyperextension with added weight if you will.
Whoa! Now you've done it! You've pushed a really hot button there.

If you can't squat below parallel without hyperextending, then it is a flexibility and form problem that needs to be fixed. Fix it, and then squat below parallel.

However, this is not the problem for most people, who tend to hyperflex (round their low back) at the bottom of the squat. This, too, is a form and flexibility issue.

Not everyone agrees (in fact, many of the best authorities, e.g. Rippetoe) that that you need to go ATG, but everyone that I've read after who seems to know what they're talking about says that you should go at least to, or slightly below parallel. You won't hurt your back if you use good form. Most people worry about the knees on this, and the evidence seems to be that trying to stop the squat at or just above parallel is harder on the knees than going just below. If you don't go to parallel, you will miss many of the benefits of this great exercise.


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