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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:32 pm
by ironmaiden708
I don't understand these misconceptions with steroid use. Studies have shown that psychosis happens with roughly 3% of all steroid users. So why is there this rampant belief that anyone who decides to better themselves through the use of wrongfully illegal anabolics will all the sudden want to go on a uncontrollable rage and attack anybody they can get their hands on? How many reported cases exist of people getting hurt from somebody in this alternate state?

I'm gonna stop here, I wrote up a nine page essay for school on the issue and I could just keep going on and on.

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:06 pm
by stuward
I need to add this link to this thread. It just says it so well.



Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:03 pm
by quadfrog
Speaking of steroids,
MYTH: 'Roid rage is a fact.
Truth: Medical evidence suggesting the existence of 'roid rage is spotty at best. It certainly can't be characterized as a "known side-effect."
Let me set the record straight: Back in 83, I was stacking decaduabolin with winstrol (excuse spelling if wrong) and was arrested at a supermarket for screaming at little cherry and apple pies while smashing them with my fists. A week later, I placed 1st at an NPC national qualifier. It could have been the dieting, but the juice was definitely a factor, as I am not usually angry towards baked goods.

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:41 pm
by ironmaiden708
About 3% of the population gets some form of psychosis from steroid usage. Ever heard of placebo effect?

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:26 pm
by Ironman
A rare occurrence, even if true, does not prove it affects most people like that. Even the safest drugs can cause a bad reaction in an incredibly small percentage of people. My random sampling of long term steroid users shows them to have no such problems. Research has also come up with nothing.

If you were using those without test, that isn't good. decadurabolin is nandralone with a deconate ester. Inhibited test causes problems all on it's own. Plus nandralones are progesterone based.

Not to mention why would you stack winnie with deca? Deca is a helper for bulking and winnie is a cutter. Unless the deca was just a small amount to help your joints.

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:50 pm
by Jungledoc
3% is a pretty significant rate for a serious side effect, and may well exceed placebo. 3% has gotten meds taken off the market.

An effect being uncommon does not necessarily mean that it's just placebo. To really know, you'd have to do controlled trials, and no one's going to do that with anabolics.

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:27 pm
by quadfrog
Not to mention why would you stack winnie with deca? Deca is a helper for bulking and winnie is a cutter. Unless the deca was just a small amount to help your joints.
The deca was administered as oil-based injections and yes, it was for joints that had been punished by years of football and powerlifting. I don't remember the knowledge base for anabolics being too sophisticated back then. We all did what Dr. Fred Hatfield told us to try, and it usually worked. After competing in bodybuilding for a period of six years, I finally figured out that all the gold-plated plastic wasn't worth the pain, health risks, and time in the gym.

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:36 pm
by Ironman
Yea, you're right. It was a different scene. It's very different now. I forget somtimes that a lot stuff we know and do now, wasn't around back then.

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:51 am
by KPj
Stretching Myths.

Myth 1

"You shouldn't static stretch before training."

Myth 2

"The best time to stretch is after a workout"



Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:17 am
by TimD
OK, would like some discussion on #2. Why do you say this? I understand and agree w/ #1.

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:26 am
by KPj
I thought Number 2 especially would get some interest. This is actually something I've thought for while, but i've only recently seen it discussed by people who know a lot more about it than me, and therefore, I now stand a better chance of explaining it.

Firstly, my own experience - i'm in position where if I don't do a certain volume of stretching per week, I get old flexiblity issues back. Quite often I'll add things and remove things to see what happens. First thing I done was remove all my stretching post workout (this was more convenience - I got much busier, had less time). Made no difference to anything. That's when I first wondered. Doesn't seem like much, but, honestly, if i don't stretch my hips every day, I slip back into anterior tilt in 1-2 months. However, it doesn't seem to matter whether I stretch post work out or not. Regardless, that doesn't count for much as I could easily be an exception (personally, I don't think I am though).

It's all about stretching cold vs stretching warm. I said "post workout" because the theory is that you should stretch post workout because your muscles are warm. However,many experts now believe that for better improvements, you should get the muscle when it's cold.

The analogy used is with plastic - Heat it up, it expands. When it cools down, it goes back to it's original shape. If you stretch it out when the plastic is cold, it will change permanently. So, the theory is that, when you're 'warm' your more flexibly anyway, so it takes away from the effects of stretching.

I'll admit that i don't fully understand the science behind it. I do have 100% belief in it, though. In a practical sense, when your stretching a muscle that is actually tight, you want to get it to a point where it feels 'uncomfortable', hold it, and all going well, you'll get that 'release'. However, post work out, this is much harder to achieve.... In another practical sense, if you actually need to improve the length of a muscle, and you only stretch post workout, it's unlikely you'll actually see any changes. The muscles will just warm up, expand, then cool, and return to it's original state (if you stick with the plastic analogy).

I also believe it just makes sense. Lets say I can't squat past parallel. I need to stretch the hip flexors. I can either warm up, train, then stretch when i'm warmed and already 'loosened up' and therefore have more ROM than when I started. Or, i can address the problem in it's purest state....(when the muscle is cold)

Then, you have the alleged negatives. Personally, i've never heard of anyone snapping a muscle because they stretched it cold... I think that's an invalid statement, to be honest.


Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:30 am
by TimD
Actually, we're pretty much in agreement on that, I just wanted to see the clarification, and your line of thinkingis what I thought it might be.

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:32 am
by KPj
It's an interesting one anyway. I feel quite strongly about it though.

I guess it's worth noting for anyone that would be reading this, that it's not WRONG to stretch post workout. It's just wrong to label post workout as 'the best time to stretch'. If anyone is in the habbit of stretching PW, i would say, 'keep doing what your doing' i.e. it's not a reason to stop doing it.

What I would advise though is, say, for example, you need to or have been told to stretch a certain muscle 'every day'. Well, I would advise that you don't count PW stretching as part of that 'every day' stretching your trying to achieve. Instead, do it 'in addition' to that recommendation.


Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:02 am
by Ironman
You should rephrase it as warm and cold then.

You should not stretch before the workout and it has nothing to do with cold. There was actually a study showing that stretching reduces the ability of the muscle to contract so you lose a little strength.

What about stretching after the workout to reduce soreness and/or cramping? I do it, but I don't really know if it does anything.

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:34 am
by KPj
Ironman wrote: You should not stretch before the workout and it has nothing to do with cold. There was actually a study showing that stretching reduces the ability of the muscle to contract so you lose a little strength.
As far as i've seen, it's the muscles power that's effected. However, there's also studies showing that stretching doesn't negatively impact power at all.

Plus, the alleged negative effects are only supposed to be temporary, like, a few minutes. So, stretch before you warm up, and it doesn't matter.

This is part of the reason I posted this. You need to watch blanket statements- "you should not stretch before the workout". Let's just say that it DOES affect the performance of the muscle you stretch, is this always a bad thing? If i have overactive hip flexors that inhibit the performance of my glutes (a common problem), wouldn't those alleged negative effects actually be a good thing? Really, I want my hip flexors to be inhibited in some way or another, so that I force better use of the glutes. This technique has been used by therapists (and coaches) for years..

So, to summarise my thoughts - I'm not actually convinced that the alleged negative effects even exist in the first place. Mostly, though, those alleged negatvie effects don't even matter if you stretch before you warm up (when the muscles are cold).
Ironman wrote: What about stretching after the workout to reduce soreness and/or cramping? I do it, but I don't really know if it does anything.
Well, there's that as well. Most recommendations say, "best tmie to stretch is PW, when the muscles are warm". However, soreness and cramping is an interesting one. I don't believe there's any evidence to support it in the first place - if there is, I would be interested in seeing it. I know that when I was on my whole posture correction mission, I stretched after every single work out. Dropping that all together made no difference to soreness.

I don't know all that much about cramping to be honest. Some muscles trying to over compensate will cramp. Some people tell you that muscle cramps are a result of dehydration. I don't actually know, and i also don't know where the theory that stretchin PW actually came from. Couple that with the fact the we don't actually know very much about DOMS, only that it occurs when you 'do something new', then you've got to wonder who came up with the recommendation that stretching will help DOMS, when they didn't know much or anything about it....

Remember, i'm not saying "DON'T stretch PW". I'm saying that it's wrong to say that this is the best time to stretch. Actually, as it turns out, it could be a less than optimal time to stretch. It doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. I just like to question the norm.