Steroids?

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Post by Ironman » Fri May 07, 2010 4:31 am

Gantz wrote:heres a link to the 16-week cycle of the steroid journalist:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... .features1

keep in mind that he harbors somewhat of a biased attitude towards roids.
Just in case anyone has any doubts this article is what NOT to do. The first thing I saw was 21 gauge..... 21 gauge!?!?!?! Is that guy a moron!? That's not a needle it's a fv(k1ng harpoon!


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Post by Jungledoc » Fri May 07, 2010 8:38 am

Well, it's a bit larger than what's commonly used for in intramuscular injection (22-24 guage--larger number=smaller needle). But he's using oil suspensions, which are more viscous, and need larger needles. You could use smaller (I'd probably use a 22 for that) but it's a little harder to inject with them.

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Re: Steroids?

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Fri May 07, 2010 10:47 am

pdellorto wrote:
Kenny Croxdale wrote:You don't need a year and a half of study, as pdellorto, to understand how to use them.
That's not what I said. What I said was

"But it seems like if you're going to cycle steroids, it's going to take a lot of careful reading, discussion, and then buying and using on the sly. So go into this thinking "maybe after a year of solid research I might know what to do or what not to do." "

Not a year and a half of study. If you're going to refute my ideas, please refute the ones I actually have.
pdellorto,

You're right...you're never going to let me forget that are you? :(

I am old with short term memory loss...:)
I just suggested that if he's going to self-prescribe medication, he ought to research it first, and set "maybe" a year as his horizon for research. I don't think 12 months is a long time for a 25-year old to spend figuring out what he's going to want to do or not do when he's injecting meds into himself.
What makes a year of learning the magic number?

Exactly, how much education do you need prior to taking them?

I had none before I started. I had none when I started taking them. The only education that I had was written on the prescription bottle.

My first trip to Dr Earlywine in Houston, TX for anabolics. I went in and told Dr Earlywine that I wanted them to gain muscle mass. wanted steriods.

Dr Earlywine then prescribed a bottle (100 tabs) of 5 mg tabs of Dianabol. I was allowed 5 refills without seeing him.

I was to take them twice a day, 10 mg a day. He suggested that I check back with him about every 6 weeks, which I did.

My check up involved Dr Earlywine asking me how I felt that was about it.

That was my initial education. There was no internet and very few articles or books on anabolics.

I did just fine by following the direction on the bottle. So, adult who can read directions and follow them can initiate a anabolic steriod cycle.

Think of it this way. Have you ever taken a medication prescirbed by a doctor without doing research on it?

Providing you follow the protocol (directions), I can guarantee that you won't have any problems with two exceptions.

Exception 1 is that you have a pre-existing health issue.

Exception 2 is STUPIDITY. In 1982, an anabolic steriod book finally came out, The Practical Use of Anabolic Steroids With Athletes, Dr. Kerr.

I wrote Kerr about my concerns about long term use. Kerr wrote me back (I still have the letter). Kerr stated that in his 20 years of prescribing anabolic steriods for 4000 athletes, he had never seen a problem with athletes who followed directions.

Kerr went on to say that those who did have problems, were those who abused them. These idiot athletes went with the "More is better" belief.

Those problems were short term problems and resolved themselves once that athlete stopped taking them.

Thus, the biggest problem is stupid people not steriods.

A good article is "Steriods For Health" by Cy Wilson.
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_arti ... for_health

One of the interesting points how one medication "was implicated in death by medical examiners 101 times in 1998 and led to 12,815 hospital visits in that same year." This medicaion is asprin.

Let's compare that to the number of people who died from anabolic steriods in 1998. NONE!

"according to the DAWN (Drug Alert Warning Network) medical examiner data from 1998, Testosterone wasn't implicated in a single death during that year."
If John feels more comfortable faster, great, he can adjust it as he learns more. But what's the rush?


I agree with you on this point. I am a proponent doing all that you can prior to the use of anabolic steriods.
Is his t-count going to drop so far in a year that even AAS won't help him?
I agreed with you in the last post on this.
It's not like he can go try it out for a couple weeks like a workout or a sport.
Yes and no. Nelson Montana's original "Steriods For Health" prescribed 3 week cycles. You can see some results in 2-3 weeks.

From my previous personal experience with myself and others, it usually take about 2 weeks for you to begin to see results. So, I am not an advocate of Montana's 3 week cycle.

Cy Wison prescribes a 5-6 week cycle on anabolic steriods. I advocate that for a couple of reasons.

Reason 1 is that at about 4-5 weeks is where you max out on your gains with an anabolic steriod. This has to do with Hans Selye "General Adaptation Syndrome".

Thus, what initially happens is your body is producing testosterone and you begin taking testosterone/anabolic steriods...which spikes your testosterone levels...your strength and muscle mass increase almost overnight.

After about 4-5 weeks, your body adjust your testosterone production to conunter balance the testosterone/anabolic steriods you are not taking. Thus, your results slow down and will eventually come to a hault.

To continue to make progress, you must increase your dosage via taking more of the same anabolic or stacking another steroid with the steriod you are taking. Both mean you need to increase you dosage.

Thus, you have to keep taking more and more and increasing the length of your cycle (taking it for weeks or months) to continue to make progress.

There is a "Ying/Yang" problem with this. One of the "Ying/Yang" problems is the longer you are on, the longer it takes your body to start back "manufacturing" testosterone.

So, if you're on for 16 weeks/4 months as the article Gantz posted, it's going to take you about 16 weeks/4 months for your own testosterone production to kick back in.

However, you can jump start your testosterone production with hCG, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin...another topic for another time.

A much better method is 6 weeks/6 weeks off. A steriod cycle is no different than a weight training cycle.
It's a significant investment in time, money, potential legal problems, etc. and personally, I'd rather see him take extra time than rush into it.
I don't see those as problems in an initial program. The problem is in obtaining them.
(Editing later - I bow to Kenny's personal experience on this.
I appreicate that.

But Kenny, you had in-person guidance on how to use it and doctor-prescribed AAS.

In the long term, I did. However, in the beginning I was clueless. I followed the directions on the bottle.

With that said, there is a plethora of information on the internet and books on how to administer it. These book and article provide you with directions.
John's got this website and wherever we point him, and pretty low odds of getting prescribed meds he can sure contain what they claim to contain. That's again why I'm suggesting he go into this cautiously and carefully.)
I am a proponent of education.

I agree that the biggest problem is in obtaining the real stuff.

Kenny Croxdale

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Post by Ironman » Fri May 07, 2010 5:30 pm

Jungledoc wrote:Well, it's a bit larger than what's commonly used for in intramuscular injection (22-24 guage--larger number=smaller needle). But he's using oil suspensions, which are more viscous, and need larger needles. You could use smaller (I'd probably use a 22 for that) but it's a little harder to inject with them.
22 to 25 are typically used. It is generally advised to inject really slow anyway because going faster tends to give people more pain and swelling. People usually draw with a 20 though.

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Re: Steroids?

Post by Ironman » Fri May 07, 2010 5:34 pm

Kenny Croxdale wrote:
In a 6 week cycle of 10 mg of dianabol, I put on 12 lbs of just about all muscle.
That's a lot of muscle for such a low dose of dbol. Did you just take it by itself?


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Post by manofsteel1385 » Fri May 07, 2010 6:33 pm

Gantz wrote:heres a link to the 16-week cycle of the steroid journalist:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... .features1

keep in mind that he harbors somewhat of a biased attitude towards roids.

I have been reading a lot on steroids and do know about pretty much every side effect they have. I'm thinking this guy was a pussy before he was taking them and after. Obviously he didn't have the mentality to take them. Obviously you aren't going to keep everything you gain on cycle. LOL Guy sounds like a cry baby. haha

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Re: Steroids?

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Fri May 07, 2010 8:07 pm

Ironman wrote:
Kenny Croxdale wrote:
In a 6 week cycle of 10 mg of dianabol, I put on 12 lbs of just about all muscle.
That's a lot of muscle for such a low dose of dbol. Did you just take it by itself?
Ironman,

You're right, that is a very low dosage. I only took Dianabol. I ate a normal diet.

Kenny Croxdale

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Post by pdellorto » Sat May 08, 2010 5:14 am

You know John, it struck me as funny last night that you're worried about your testosterone levels dropping at 25.

I'm 38 and I'm stronger than I was at 37, lower testosterone levels or not. Maybe before you cycle, you might want to invest that $ in a good trainer and see what you can build that way. A good trainer with a real knowledge of building physiques plus a good nutritionist might be a killer combo compared to steroids plus whatever program seems like a good idea to do. I'm just saying. If you still chose to do steroids after that, you'd still know what was working without them and could combine the effect.

I'm just thinking what eating better plus training with a real coach did for me, and the most anabolic stuff I put into my body was food.

Just a thought.

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Post by Kenny Croxdale » Sat May 08, 2010 6:37 am

pdellorto wrote:You know John, it struck me as funny last night that you're worried about your testosterone levels dropping at 25.

I'm 38 and I'm stronger than I was at 37, lower testosterone levels or not. Maybe before you cycle, you might want to invest that $ in a good trainer and see what you can build that way. A good trainer with a real knowledge of building physiques plus a good nutritionist might be a killer combo compared to steroids plus whatever program seems like a good idea to do. I'm just saying. If you still chose to do steroids after that, you'd still know what was working without them and could combine the effect.

I'm just thinking what eating better plus training with a real coach did for me, and the most anabolic stuff I put into my body was food.

Just a thought.
pdellorto is right.

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Post by pdellorto » Sat May 08, 2010 8:10 am

Kenny Croxdale wrote: pdellorto is right.

Kenny Croxdale
Thanks Kenny.

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Post by Peter Rouse » Sat May 08, 2010 11:48 am

Ironman wrote:
Jungledoc wrote:Well, it's a bit larger than what's commonly used for in intramuscular injection (22-24 guage--larger number=smaller needle). But he's using oil suspensions, which are more viscous, and need larger needles. You could use smaller (I'd probably use a 22 for that) but it's a little harder to inject with them.
22 to 25 are typically used. It is generally advised to inject really slow anyway because going faster tends to give people more pain and swelling. People usually draw with a 20 though.
depends on the quality of the product and the size of the syringe you are using. You can use as small as a 29g which has the additional benefit if less scaring in the long term. Injecting 1ml with a 1ml syringe and 29g needle will work fine.

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Post by Ironman » Sat May 08, 2010 12:22 pm

Peter Rouse wrote:
Ironman wrote:
Jungledoc wrote:Well, it's a bit larger than what's commonly used for in intramuscular injection (22-24 guage--larger number=smaller needle). But he's using oil suspensions, which are more viscous, and need larger needles. You could use smaller (I'd probably use a 22 for that) but it's a little harder to inject with them.
22 to 25 are typically used. It is generally advised to inject really slow anyway because going faster tends to give people more pain and swelling. People usually draw with a 20 though.
depends on the quality of the product and the size of the syringe you are using. You can use as small as a 29g which has the additional benefit if less scaring in the long term. Injecting 1ml with a 1ml syringe and 29g needle will work fine.
Are you talking just water based steroids and HGH, or do you mean oil based as well? That's a really small needle.

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Post by manofsteel1385 » Sat May 08, 2010 12:51 pm

Pete I have been lifting and researching and doing different things for 10 years now.

I'm not sure a trainer could teach me or show me anything that would inhibit the growth that I'm looking for. As for diet I have a very clean high protein diet. The only thing I'm thinking I could do is supplement maybe take protein shakes or creatine but if I'm going to start taking $h1t why not go all out?
Why half ass it? I started the 10x10 routine day before yesterday at the gym.

Yesterday I had off. I have been reading a lot a lot a lot on what workout programs get the most results what rest time between sets and what days you rest are the most beneficial for you.

Also with steroids I have read for every steroid you take you have to take something to counter the negative side effects. I don't mind at all. I know if I took a 16 week cycle with like test cypionate or Enanthate with Dianabol that would supposedly give me some hellacious gains but once you come off that you would see half or more of your gains drop. I wouldn't mind cause I would expect that.

Unlike whineass boy that complained about getting skinny after coming off cycle if you understand thats going to happen and not let that $h1t get to your head you have a better chance of staying consistent. I mean that guy complained like steroids were an ex gf that cheated on him with his brother... it was crazy.

If i gained 10-12 lbs post cycle and kept that on Id be happy cause obviously with muscle gain like that you would also if I'm not wrong have your fat content drop. Thing is I'm killing it now with cardio and diet to get as chiseled and as lean as possible. I read that for the most size gains with steroids you need an almost minimal or no cardiovascular workouts.

But then I read that to keep your body somewhat used to the size gains and weight gain that you have to do a minimal amount of cardio.

So whats the deal people? I want to be chiseled and lean and huge. idk heres a video of me starting my 10x10 with deadlifts... I know its only 255 lbs but this $h1t killed me... hear ya go.

http://www.youtube.com/user/bdowney27#p/u/5/BF-ordDxi0M

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Post by Kenny Croxdale » Sat May 08, 2010 4:56 pm

manofsteel1385 wrote:I know if I took a 16 week cycle with like test cypionate or Enanthate with Dianabol that would supposedly give me some hellacious gains
John,

I agree. However, as I noted in previous post, I am not a proponent of a 16 week cycle. I am an advocated of 6 weeks on/6 week off.

I am also believe in using the minimum to start. So, I would start with either Test or Dianabol rather than stacking and see where that takes you.
but once you come off that you would see half or more of your gains drop.
I would say that you are going to "see half or more of your gains drop".

As you know, what you lose after you come off certain anabilics is water weight. Certain anabolics (such as dianabol) create a "cell voluminizing" effect like creatine.

As with creatine, once you stop taking them your body weight drops due to your water weight loss. That water weight loss does create a drop in muscle size and strength.

Anabolics such as Equipoise and Anavar (over priced!!!) build muscle mass much slower but you maintain a greater percentage of the gains you obtained when you are on them.

Thus, it is a bit of a grey area.
Unlike whineass boy that complained about getting skinny after coming off cycle if you understand thats going to happen and not let that $h1t get to your head you have a better chance of staying consistent.
Your not going get skinny, when you come off unless you stop training and eating. I retained the majority of gains I obtained on my cycles.
If i gained 10-12 lbs post cycle and kept that on Id be happy cause obviously with muscle gain like that you would also if I'm not wrong have your fat content drop.


As I mentioned in a previous post, I added 12 lbs with my first cycle. I gained from 148 lbs to 162. So, I kept 12 lbs and dropped 2 lbs.

With additional cycles of Dianabol, I was only able to increase my body weight to 165 lbs.

By stacking with various anabolics, I was able to increase my body weight to 178. I am not sure what my body fat percentage prior to taking them.

However, I had myself hydrostatic weighted at Texas A&M Exercise Physiology Lab when I hit 178 lbs. I came in at 11.8% body fat.

I never did any cardio.

I ended up going from 178 to 192 in 6 weeks with HGH. My diet wasn't good. I added muscle mass, strength and more body fat than I wanted.

Thus, there are two take home messages.

1) Anaboics do not make you bullet proof to increasing body fat.

2) Diet is they key to minimizing body fat.
Thing is I'm killing it now with cardio and diet to get as chiseled and as lean as possible.
Cardio will help to some extent. However, as you are aware, too much cardio does more harm than good.
I read that for the most size gains with steroids you need an almost minimal or no cardiovascular workouts.
I agree.

Kenny Croxdale

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Post by robertscott » Sun May 09, 2010 11:59 am

do you have to inject steroids or can you take them orally?

I wouldn't have issue with taking steroids but I'm not sure I could inject myself


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