Six Packing progress - need opinion

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Mas_dymas
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Six Packing progress - need opinion

Post by Mas_dymas » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:28 am

Hi, I'm new around here and just found this useful website recently,

I'm a 28 years old male who used to be very fat. A year ago i was 115 kg, while my height is only 172 cm. In a year, I've lost quite a weight, currently i am 84 kg.

I do a lot of weight lifting and cardios, also some low carb diets to loose my weight. I went to gym 6/7 times per week and spend around 3 hours there, i spent 30 minutes cardio for warm-ups and 30 minutes cardio after my weight lifting session. At present i am doing the 300 workout routine but in a circuit strength mode, meaning that i'm doing it without any breaks but in a less heavy weight compare to what the actors do :)

After a year training and diet all the time, i can see some progress, well at least i loose a lot of fats in my belly and start to shape up as if there are muscles there :D and saw some six pack shape there. When i was 90,4 kg i went to physiotherapist and had my body examined, at the time i had 16% of body fat (8 months ago).

My target for time is too have a sixpack abs and of course a single digit bodyfat.

So any suggestions how to do it?


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Post by robertscott » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:51 am

just keep at it. I think 3 hour sessions in the gym are pointless, you'd be better having an intense, 1 hour session. Do that 4 times a week and lift heavy weights and run as fast as you can. None of this jogging for hours nonsense, get sprinting!

weight circuits like you're doing are the business so keep doing those. Although I always cringe a bit when I hear someone is doing a routine they've gotten out of a magazine or something, if it's working then you can't argue with results.

Keep your carbs around the workout window, and eat more protein and drink more water.

There's no magic bullet I'm afraid, just eat well and lift weights

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Re: Six Packing progress - need opinion

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:05 am

Mas_dymas wrote:I went to gym 6/7 times per week and spend around 3 hours there, i spent 30 minutes cardio for warm-ups and 30 minutes cardio after my weight lifting session.
Mas_dymas,

3 Hour Workout...A Form of Insanity

Doing a 3 hour workout is like using a sledge hammer to kill a fly. It OVER KILL. (as robertacott stated)

You end up cutting weight but it the WRONG weight. Three hour workouts are going to cut a great percentage of muscle mass...NOT what you want.

"You can train hard or long but NOT both!" Vince Giornda

There is an INDIRECT relationship between intensity and time. As the intensity of exercise goes up, the time will drop.

It a lot like running 100 meters in 10 seconds. That doesn't mean you can run 1600 meters (about a mile) in 2.66 minutes (16 X 10 = 160 seconds, divided by 60 seconds = 2.66 minutes).

The longer the distance the MORE you slow down on a per meter basis. The same applie to your training for 3 hours. You got NOTHING left in the tank.

More Cortisol LESS Testosterone

Cortisol basically burn up muscle mass while Testosterone build muscle mass.

Research shows that training sessions of an hour or less produces the most Testosterone production.

Once a training session goes beyond an hour, Testosterone production is in the tolit.

Even WORSE, after an hour Cortisol production begins to climb.

That meaning you end up burning up muscle mass rather than building it.
At present i am doing the 300 workout routine but in a circuit strength mode, meaning that i'm doing it without any breaks but in a less heavy weight compare to what the actors do :)
Circuit Training is an effective method of increasing your metabolism, burning body fat. Interval training is the foundation of P90X, Body For Life and Ready-Set-Go.
So any suggestions how to do it?
The key to cutting body fat/weight is diet, about 80%.

So, what are you doing with your diet?

Kenny Croxdale

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ApolytonGP
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Post by ApolytonGP » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:49 am

reduce your calories, lose more weight, abs will come out.

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Post by stuward » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:19 am

ApolytonGP wrote:reduce your calories, lose more weight, abs will come out.
Reducing calories will cause weight loss but much of it might be muscle, which, at best, is counter productive and at worst could contribute to a heart attack. Kenny's giving good advice.


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Post by Immortal » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:57 pm

OK ok I may be young and I may be kind og naive at times but here is a question that I have that might bother some of you and IM so sorry for that, is everything in training edged in stone? For instance, is eating more calories and lifting heavier the best way to get stronger? Are low reps really that much more fat burning then high reps? I know people that are really big without even having a good diet, like all they eat as snacks is chips and theyre favorite foods are things like peach rings.. that honestly goes against what you guys say all the time, and dont get me wrong, I listen to you guys but how come some people who dont can still bench over 300 pounds and others can dead lift so much perfectly.. take for example our heavy weight wrestler, all he does is eat and eat and a lot of times I see him taking cookies after cookies and devour them, and he chugs gatorade like no tomorow.. At match times he would eat like pizza and maybe a sandwhich but the fact of the matter was he was still jacked and athletic, I mean he wasnt cut but he was extremely strong and he even went to 5th in states 2 years ago, so my bottom line my question is, how come some people get away eating whatever they can and can still manage to be big and strong while other people that I know that work out down to the rules u guys have set are still not that big?

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Post by Travis » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:57 pm

in a word: Genetics

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Post by bam » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:30 pm

Immortal wrote:...take for example our heavy weight wrestler, all he does is eat and eat and a lot of times I see him taking cookies after cookies and devour them, and he chugs gatorade like no tomorow.. At match times he would eat like pizza and maybe a sandwhich but the fact of the matter was he was still jacked and athletic, I mean he wasnt cut but he was extremely strong and he even went to 5th in states 2 years ago...
George Burns and Fidel Castro smoked cigars most of their lives. George Burns lived to 100. Fidel is still alive at 84. So if you want to be famous and live a long life, smoke cigars. Nothing like a little inductive reasoning to justify an unhealthy lifestyle.

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Post by Jebus » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:40 pm

the 300 workout is ridiculous.

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Post by stuward » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:14 pm

Some people can eat all they want of whatever they want and stay lean. Genetics is a big part of that. Your nature is what it is and all you can really do is adjust it a little. Some call that genetic expression. Actually, the difference between optimal training and nutrition and typical training and nutrition is like night and day but my point is that your nature is the same. However, a big part of it is in the energy you expend. If you expend vasts amount of energy, you can take in lots and it doesn't matter a lot what it is since you will certainly take in enough nutrients to meat you body's needs. Michael Phelps is a good example of that.

The 300 workout was designed as a test to make people feel better about themselves, sort of a rite of passage. It was a physiological tool and was never designed as a regular workout. You can read about it at Gym Jones.

3 hours in a gym is too much. I'd like to hear more from the OP as to the details of his workout and his diet.

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Post by Kenny Croxdale » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:15 pm

Immortal wrote:OK ok I may be young and I may be kind og naive at times
Immortal,

I'd say that just about everyone on this board at one time was young and naive... :)
but here is a question that I have that might bother some of you and IM so sorry for that, is everything in training edged in stone?
It is more like guidelines that are carved in stone. That meaning that the majority of people usually respond to the same types of training stimulus.
For instance, is eating more calories and lifting heavier the best way to get stronger?
Eating more calories is definitely part of the equation for graining weight and getting stronger. Lifting heavier weight makes you stonger...the more you lift the more you can lift.
Are low reps really that much more fat burning then high reps?
Low reps increase strength but do next to nothing for fat burning. Fat burning has to do with increasing your heart rate. That doesn't happen with low reps.

Moderate loads/70% of your 1 Repetition Max in an exercise for 8-12 repetitions with short rest periods, 30-60 seconds are more effective for increasing your metabolims/burning body fat.
I know people that are really big without even having a good diet, like all they eat as snacks is chips and theyre favorite foods are things like peach rings.. that honestly goes against what you guys say all the time,
Gaining weight is all about math...consuming more calories. Tom Morris (an exercise physiologist) once stated, "If you want to gain weight, EAT BACKWARDS. Start your meal with dessert (calorie dense foods/lots of calories) and end you meal with a salad (caloricly sparce food/next to no calories).

Tim (the moderator) said, "...don't particularly care about the nutrition nazis warnings about red meat, high fat, etc, etc, , I think a bunch of them would do wonders. Back in the day, good ole cheseburgers were a mainstay for bulking."
http://www.exrx.net/forum/viewtopic.php ... 8e04d02d7c
and dont get me wrong, I listen to you guys but how come some people who dont can still bench over 300 pounds and others can dead lift so much perfectly.. take for example our heavy weight wrestler, all he does is eat and eat and a lot of times I see him taking cookies after cookies and devour them, and he chugs gatorade like no tomorow.. At match times he would eat like pizza and maybe a sandwhich but the fact of the matter was he was still jacked and athletic, I mean he wasnt cut but he was extremely strong and he even went to 5th in states 2 years ago, so my bottom line my question is, how come some people get away eating whatever they can and can still manage to be big and strong while other people that I know that work out down to the rules u guys have set are still not that big?
As Stuward and Travis stated, "Genetics."

The first rule in become a great athlete is "Pick the right parents." Once you do that everything is a lot easier.

Next time I am picking parents with better genetics and a lot of money.

Kenny Croxdale

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Re: Six Packing progress - need opinion

Post by Mas_dymas » Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:54 am

Dear All, thank you for the great response.

As for spending 3 hours at the gym, yeah somehow i realized that is a little bit too much and wasting time, but in a physiological condition, i guess i'm addicted to the gym, its like when I lift the weight or even doing some hours of running my burden is being lifted up or relieve the stress. But I've been doing this for almost a year, and the fact that i loose a lot of weight and gain "some" muscles makes me believe that i've done the right thing. Well now i see that what i'm doing seems not right or in a wrong way :)



As for my diet, usually i cut off my carbohydrates intake, meaning that i don't eat any carbs that comes from potatoes, bread, rice or pasta, mostly i consume protein from eggs, fish (tuna, salmon, makerel) and chicken breast without skin. Vegetables also a part of my diet, i consume it for dinner together with a litre "carrot and orange" juice (homemade), for breakfast i usually drink coffee and 1 boiled egg, lunch usually is just chicken with eggs or fish with eggs, and bananas for the source of my carbohydrates. But sometimes there are big passion to eat more and more after doing the workout at the gym. In the end, i end up a whole chicken for dinner (yup, a whole chicken grill), or maybe yogurts for dinner. I know its bad, but sometimes you get so hungry, so rather than buying pizza or hamburgers, i end up eating the whole chicken. Oh i also consume CLA and Soya Protein Isolate to mix up with my smoothie, i usually drink smoothie after the workout (a mix of blueberry, strawberries and protein isolate). Your comments are welcome.

Then my next question would be, if producing testosterone is only during the 1 hour work out, does it mean i can do the weight lifting for 1 hour, and do some sprints afterwards, or does it i could only do sprint and weight lifting only for an hour? I really need the guidance how should i do and arrange my work out session, i've tried to look at this website, but somehow for a layman like its quite hard to understand.

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Post by stuward » Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:21 am

In order to get your training into the 1 hour window (which is not a hard and fats rule) You need to be efficient with your workout design. Do your workout in phases.

Phase 1: foam rolling, stretching, general warmup and skills training. This is low intensity and in some cases may be a few minutes or a significant time. Don't count it as part of your hour window as it isn't that stressful.

Phase 2: The main workout. Focus on compound movements like Squats. presses and pulls. These should be about 80% of your workout and as much as is reasonable, superset your exercises to minimize time between sets. It's hard to do this type of training for more than an hour anyway. Finish with isolation work if you have time and desire.

If you add cardio at the end, keep it withing the 1 hour window and keep it intense. Sprints, farmer's walks, sled pushes, etc are all great ways to quickly get your heart beat up.

Phase 3: Long slow cardio: Do this in it's own workout after you have recovered from you main workout and taken in some nourishment. This should be low stress and pleasurable, like walking, swimming, cycling, etc. This should be relaxing, more like recreation than exercise.

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Re: Six Packing progress - need opinion

Post by Kenny Croxdale » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:02 am

Mas_dymas wrote:Dear All, thank you for the great response.

As for spending 3 hours at the gym, yeah somehow i realized that is a little bit too much and wasting time, but in a physiological condition, i guess i'm addicted to the gym, its like when I lift the weight or even doing some hours of running my burden is being lifted up or relieve the stress.
Mas_dymas,

I understand how working out can make you feel better.
But I've been doing this for almost a year, and the fact that i loose a lot of weight and gain "some" muscles makes me believe that i've done the right thing.


Everything Works But NOTHING Works Forever

I am sure it worked for you. Everything initially works and then it stops working.

Also, you have nothing to compare it to. So, how would know if anything esle works better?

It like hammering a nail in with a crescent wrench. That works.

Then you discover a hammer and find out it works ever better than the crescent wrench.
Well now i see that what i'm doing seems not right or in a wrong way :)
There are other methods that are more effective.
if producing testosterone is only during the 1 hour work out, does it mean i can do the weight lifting for 1 hour, and do some sprints afterwards, or does it i could only do sprint and weight lifting only for an hour? I really need the guidance how should i do and arrange my work out session, i've tried to look at this website, but somehow for a layman like its quite hard to understand.
As Stu said, an hour means about an hour...no longer.

Another alternative it breaking you training sessions up into two sessions a day. That is a much more productive method.

Kenny Croxdale

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Post by stuward » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:31 am

With the diet, it's great that you are restricting carbs. Be careful with processed foods as carbs show up in unexpected places. Be careful with sugary fruits like melons and pinapple. They're OK once in a while but stick to berries and citrus most of the time.

I'm concerned with the juice, even homemade. You're consuming a lot of sugar in a litre of juice. I know Jack Lalanne says so...

Yogurt is another sugar bomb to be careful with.

Don't be concerned with natural fats. The best part of the chicken is in the skin (except for KFC).

In a low carb environment, There are no issues with any natural fats including saturated fats. The only fats you need to be concerned with are unnatural fats, like margarines, and seed oils like Crisco and corn oil. Go with animal fats, olive oil, and coconut oil. They can be a significant part of your calorie intake.

If you have to eat hamburgers, get the half pound + burgers and don't eat more than one bun. If you are particularly intolerant of carbs, skip that bun too. Skip the fries, pop and salads. (fast food salads can be sugar bombs).

Avoid Soy products. Get your protein from animal sources. Eggs, whey, meat, etc.

CLA is good but if you eat enough red meat you don't need to supplement. Chose grass fed over grain fed if available.


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