Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

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Harpoon
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Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

Post by Harpoon » Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:37 pm

Trying to treat my lordosis.. might just be genetically fv(k but I'm doing what I can :blackeye:

wikipedia
Lordosis of the lower back may be treated by strengthening the hip extensors on the back of the thighs, and by stretching the hip flexors on the front of the thighs. Too much importance have been attributed to the abdominal muscles in maintaining a neutral spine position. They may help by pushing the internal organs against the spine hence alleviating the lumbar curvature but they can't rotate the pelvis backward while in a standing position. Also the lumbar erector spinae is not able to rotate the pelvis forward while standing, hence its strengthening is not to be avoided during lordosis treatment. Only the muscles on the front and on the back of the thighs can rotate the pelvis forward or backward while in a standing position because they can discharge the force on the ground through the legs and feet. Abdominal muscles and erector spinae can't discharge force on an anchor point while standing, unless one is holding his hands somewhere, hence their function will be to flex or extend the torso, not the hip. Back hyper-extensions on a Roman chair or inflatable ball will strengthen all the posterior chain and will treat lordosis. So too will stiff legged deadlifts and supine hip lifts and any other similar movement strengthening the posterior chain without involving the hip flexors in the front of the thighs.
random site from google http://www.veganfitness.net/viewtopic.php?t=15864" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The worst thing you can do for lordosis is work your lower back even more. This will only exacerbate the problem. At the moment tight hip flexors are pulling the pelvis down at the front, while tight erectors are pulling it up at the back, so it's tilted downwards. As the Whippet said, you need to hit your abs hard and stretch out those hip flexors in order to pull the pelvis back into alignment. I'd suggest doing standing ab pulldowns for your abs - they need to be strong, so you need to hit them with some heavy weight.
so hard to find non-contradictory info...

anyone have any idea on the topic??

thanks :)

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Re: Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

Post by stuward » Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:51 pm

It's not really contradictory, but the second one is from a vegan source so it should be ignored. The hip extensors need exercise and the hip flexors need stretching. Instead of, say deadlifts, try glute bridges. The movement is similar buut the emphasis is shifted from the lower back to the glutes. Similarily, you should do exercises the focus on the abs but deemphasize the hip flexors, hense the ab pulldowns. Since the erectors work with the glutes, and the abs work with the hip flexors, you shouldn't avoid any exercise, just change the emphasis. Just standing up straight and rotating your pelvis back is helpful.
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Re: Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

Post by Harpoon » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:52 pm

I've been doing Neanderthal no more part 5 as my only exercise routine for many months now, and more than half of the big exercises have something to do with the glutes ie

rack pull
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lunges
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kneeling squats
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seated good mornings
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and box squats (a squat but you sit down on a box to make sure you get full range of motion)

1 - I did bridges before to learn what glute activation "feels like" but as you see i'm hitting glutes pretty hard
2 - is it possible that I'm training my hip FLEXORS during the eccentric phase of these movements just as hard as the extensors, cancelling out what I'm trying to work on?
3 - Not really seeing any passive improvements to my lordosis (have to really suck up my abs to change it actively), and honestly I'm kind of afraid all this glute work is making my ass even bigger :P (seriously)..
Just wondering if theres anything else I can be doing.. i'll try the ab pulldowns

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Re: Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

Post by stuward » Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:30 pm

Hip flexors tighten while sitting. Since you probably sit for a large part of the day, that's probably a factor. If your glutes are looking big, it's probably due to carrying a little too much body fat. If it was lean muscle, no one would complain.
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Re: Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

Post by robertscott » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:11 am

anterior pelvic tilt'll make your ass stick out more and look bigger. Once that's fixed it'll be fine

And besides, girls love a man with a meaty ass, don't worry about it.

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Re: Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

Post by mark74 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:18 am

robertscott wrote:anterior pelvic tilt'll make your ass stick out more and look bigger.
Belly too! Anyone has a killer stretch for hip flexors? I've just started messing with this one
stuward wrote:the second one is from a vegan source so it should be ignored.
LOL!
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Re: Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

Post by Harpoon » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:57 pm

mark74 wrote:
robertscott wrote:anterior pelvic tilt'll make your ass stick out more and look bigger.
Belly too! Anyone has a killer stretch for hip flexors? I've just started messing with this one

doesnt really do anything for me... the leg just kind of dangles

anyway, when you do the regular lunge-like hip flexor stretch, is your lumbar spine supposed to curve in any more? Cause i can't seem to stop it from doing so....

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Re: Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

Post by robertscott » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:12 pm

best stretch for your hips is in the article:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... ng_part_ii" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

scroll down to the upper quad/hip emphasis stretch. If you're squeezing your glutes on the side being stretched you should be able to maintain neutral spine

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Re: Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

Post by Harpoon » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:02 am

but thats stretching the quads and not the hip flexors, yeah?

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Re: Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

Post by stuward » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:22 am

Quads are also hip flexors, although it's usually the psoas that contribute to the problems. There are several stretches in the article. You see the one called "basic Quad". It's the ones after that that target the psoas mores. The text says "upper portion of the quads" but it's a good stretch. The one called "Basic Hip Flexor" is most specifically for the psoas.
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Re: Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

Post by robertscott » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:35 pm

Harpoon wrote:but thats stretching the quads and not the hip flexors, yeah?
both. You won't find a better hip stretch than that.

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Re: Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

Post by stuward » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:40 pm

Also do a Google search for samson stretch. It's a standard Crossfit do-everything stretch.
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Re: Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

Post by robertscott » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:10 pm

interestingly, the stretch I do is a cross between that one I mentioned from the article and the samson stretch.

And just like that, the "Bob Stretch" is born. I love naming exercises after myself.

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Re: Erector spinae exercises good or bad with lordosis?

Post by CorlessJohnJ » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:41 pm

robertscott wrote:interestingly, the stretch I do is a cross between that one I mentioned from the article and the samson stretch.

And just like that, the "Bob Stretch" is born. I love naming exercises after myself.
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